May 11, 1967

A New Birth

Interview with The Mother by Shri Surendra Nath Jauhar on 11 th May 1967

Conversation between The Mother and Shri Surendra Nath Jauhar

SNJ: Mother, whenever I come to you, you take me to the Skies and Heavens with your power, influence and talks. It is always pleasant, soothing and encouraging to hear. But as soon as I leave you the effect goes on diminishing and in course of time everything fades away. It is because I have no capacity to sustain. , Is it not possible that you give me something of a permanent nature which I could grasp and hold?

Perhaps you could speak and I may record the same on a tape-recorder so that I would refresh myself by hearing your voice from time to time....

MOTHER: I have no objection but you see I am suffering from a very bad cold and throat-trouble. I am unable to speak. But I cannot refuse you. You can bring the tape-recorder and I will try to speak.

(Chitra who came with Surendra Nath Jauhar switches on the tape recorder.)

MOTHER: Je croyais c'était ton frère qui venait, non ? C'est toi? [I thought it was your brother coming, no? It's you ?]

CHITRA: D'abord c'était lui qui.... [At first it was him that......]


CHITRA: Il devait venir...... [He was to come.....]

MOTHER: Ein, n'est-ce pas? [Ein, is it not?] On m'avait ecrit que c'était ton frère. [They had written to me it was your brother]

CHITRA: Mais Tar a m'a dit "C'est mieux si tu y vas." [But then Tara said "it is better that you go"]

MOTHER: Oh, alors assois-toi! [Oh, then sit down] "What is it?"

SNJ: "Shall I read this ?"

[Mother took the written questions in Her own Hands and studied these and answered.]

MOTHER: You see, in the present condition of the world, circumstances are always difficult. The whole world is in a condition of strife, conflict between the forces of truth and light wanting to manifest and the opposition of all that doesn't want to change which represents in the past what is fixed, hardened and refuses to go. Naturally, each individual feels his own difficulties and is faced by the same obstacles. There is only one way for you. It is a total, complete and unconditional surrender.

What I mean by that is giving up not only of one's actions, work, ambitions, but also of all one's feelings, in the sense that all what you do, all what you are, is exclusively for the Divine. So, you feel above the human surrounding reactions. Not only above them but protected from them by the wall of the Divine's Grace.

Once you have no more desires, no more attachments; once you have given up all necessity of receiving a reward from the human beings whoever they are and knowing that the only reward that is worth getting is that one that comes from the Supreme: and that never fails. Once you give up the attachment of all the exterior beings and things, you at once feel in your heart this presence, this force, this grace, that is always with you. And there is no other remedy. It's the only remedy for everybody without exception.

All those who suffer, it's the same thing that has to be said. All suffering is the sign that the surrender is not total. Then, when you feel in you a 'bang' like that, instead of saying, 'Oh this one is bad', or 'This circumstance is difficult', you say, 'My surrender is not perfect'.

And then you feel the grace that helps you and leads you and you go on. And one day you emerge in that peace that nothing can trouble.

You answer to all the contrary forces, the contrary movements — the attacks, the misunderstandings, the bad wills with the same smile that comes from full confidence in the Divine's Grace. And that is the only way out, there is none else.

This world is a world of conflict, suffering, difficulties, and strains. It is made of it. It has not yet changed. It will take some time before changing and for each one there is a possibility of getting out. If you lean back on the presence of the Supreme Grace, that is the only way out.

That I am telling you since two-three days like that constantly... (A long pause) Now?

SNJ: What to do ?

MOTHER: What ? For your work there is nothing to say. You are doing it perfectly well; exactly as it has to be done; it is all right. Your work is quite all right.

SNJ: That is what I wanted to ask... that is why just I wanted to say this, whether this work is in any manner needed or not ? Why should I go on doing this?

MOTHER: Excellent, go on doing it. You do it perfectly well. Don't expect human appreciation because the human beings, they don't know on what grounds they can appreciate and moreover when there is something that is superior to them, they don't like it. And this movement is normal.

SNJ: But where to get such a strength ?

MOTHER: To get... Eh? ...

SNJ: But where to get such strength ?

MOTHER: Within you! The Divine Presence is in you.It is in you. You look for it outside. Look inside. It is in you. The Presence is there.

You want the appreciation of the others to get strength, you will never get it. The strength is in you. If you want you can aspire for what seems to you, the Supreme Goal, Supreme Light, Supreme Knowledge, Supreme Love. But it is in you, otherwise you would never be able to contact it.

If you go deep enough inside you, you will find it there like a flame that is always burning straight up.
(She saw the paper and after seeing that for some time)

MOTHER: These Messages - that I can't write just now. I will send. I keep your paper, I will send the messages; and for your gentleman also, I will send him a card and some blessings. And don't believe that it is so difficult to do. It is because the look is always turned outside that you don't feel the Divine Presence but if instead of looking outside for support you concentrate and you pray inside to the Supreme Knowledge to know at each moment what is to be done, the way to do it, and to give all you are, all you do, in order to acquire perfection. Then you will feel that the support is there, always guiding, showing the way. And if there is a difficulty, instead of wanting to fight, you hand it over; hand it over to the Supreme Wisdom to deal with it, to deal with all the bad wills, all the misunderstandings, all the bad reactions.

If you surrender completely, it is no more your 'concern. It's the concern of the Supreme who takes it up and knows better than anybody else what is to be done.

The only way out, Only way out. Voila, petit. (Here my child) I keep that (paper). 7 will send you afterwards.

SNJ: One thing, whatever I do there, that is also not liked by my own people and....

MOTHER: Your own people are all mixed up as everybody.

SNJ: And then.... But my feeling is so strong, not only strong in that way but it is as clear as daylight, as if I am just sitting in your presence.


SNJ: ... that I do not do anything myself. This is such a great, clear experience to me from all these years, - that whatever is being done by me, it is being done by some Force and not by me at all and it gets it done, but then the...

MOTHER: Hein ! You expect the world to understand that?

SNJ: No. But... they may not understand, I don't want any credit for that. But you see the obstacles and the....

MOTHER: If you consider that "I can understand and know" then you have my full support. I never told you that you were doing wrong. Did I?

Now, once for all you must understand that unless people are true Yogis, out of the ego, completely surrendered to the Supreme, they can't understand.

How could they ? They see with all the exterior eyes and knowledge, they see exterior things and appearances. They don't see the inside.
(Long pause)

When we have stopped expecting appreciation from the outside, that is from the human beings, we have no reason to complain.

They appreciate, so much the better for them. They don't appreciate, it doesn't matter. It's their own lookout.

We do the things not to please them; we do the things because we feel that, that is to be done.

SNJ: I have never expected appreciation, Mother.

MOTHER: Perhaps things are coming to compel you to take up that position. Because that is the liberation, that is the true liberation.

SNJ: I do not... Not from ego, but I am a Sadhu by nature. I don't need anything at all

MOTHER: That is all right, but you must not need also the appreciation of your own family.

SNJ: With all my failings and weaknesses, I don't need anything at all. I don't need any appreciation.

MOTHER: Then you can't suffer. Because the only thing that you need is the support of the Divine and you have it. Then you can't suffer.

SNJ: But I am suffering very much.

MOTHER: Then there is a conflict in you. One part of your consciousness knows, but there is still one part that is the slave of the circumstances. (Silence)

Perhaps all that has been coming upon you is from the Supreme and the Total Liberation. And if you take it like the expression of the Grace you will see the result. Peace, a peace that nothing can disturb; perfect equanimity and a strength that never fails. (Long silence)

Take it as A NEW BIRTH today. A new life that is beginning.

11th May 1967
Surendra Nath Jauhar

The Mother's wishes to Tara Didi in French on 1-Aug-1971



27 years of growth of progress and useful work have given you a special place in the Ashram with special love from Sri Aurobindo; as well as my great tenderness and constant blessings.